ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
Vice President JD Vance hosted "The Charlie Kirk Show" today in a tribute to the conservative activist who was killed last week. Vance brought on people in the administration close to Kirk to reminisce, and key figures talked about the significant role Kirk played behind the scenes, like Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller and Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The vice president also pointed fingers at those he sees as responsible for Kirk's death.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST, "THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW")
JD VANCE: We're trying to figure out how to prevent this festering violence that you see on the far left from becoming even more and more mainstream.
SHAPIRO: To tell us more about the show and how Charlie Kirk's legacy is being shaped, NPR senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro and NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik are both here. Hello to you both.
DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: Hey there.
DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: Hey there.
SHAPIRO: Domenico, to start with you, often, in moments of mourning, we hear leaders call for unity. President Trump has not really been focusing on that message in the last few days. Did Vice President Vance today?
MONTANARO: Yes and no. I mean, Vance talked about how much he appreciated Democratic colleagues, senators and lawmakers who expressed their sympathy for Vance after Kirk's death because they know that he was close to Kirk. But then Vance closed with a message of action, pointing out that the administration would be going after those that they view as part of a malignant problem, as he called it, on the left when it comes to violence.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST, "THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW")
VANCE: There is no unity with people who scream at children over their parents' politics. There is no unity with someone who lies about what Charlie Kirk said in order to excuse his murder. There is no unity with someone who harasses an innocent family the day after the father of that family lost a dear friend. There is no unity with the people who celebrate Charlie Kirk's assassination.
MONTANARO: Now, Vance didn't acknowledge violence toward Democrats, like the murder of a Minnesota state senator and her husband earlier this year or the 2020 plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan, or, of course, January 6.
SHAPIRO: He also cited polling that he felt backed up his premise that acceptance of violence is more prevalent on the left. You are the person who monitors polls for NPR. What do the numbers actually show?
MONTANARO: Yeah, the numbers he cited were coming from YouGov. It was a poll that was taken last week after Kirk's killing. It found 24% of respondents who identified as, quote, "very liberal" considered it acceptable for a person to be happy about the death of a public figure they oppose. That's compared to 3% of those who were very conservative. And no doubt, I mean, I found it disturbing that there's been some glee from some corners with progressives online, but we've seen differences in attitudes over the years, depending what's asked and how it's asked.
For example, a Public Religion Research Institute poll from last year found that Republicans are far more likely to believe that true American patriots may have to resort to violence to save the country. And a University of Chicago poll from just before the election last year, found a negligible difference between Democrats and Republicans on whether they'd support use of force to either stop Trump from trying to get back to the White House or, on the other side, to help him. You know, so it cuts different ways, but the White House clearly using that first data point as a justification for saying that it's more rampant on the left.
SHAPIRO: Turning to you, David, a lot of the vice president's guests assigned blame to the political left. How is that shaping the narrative that forms around Kirk's death and his legacy?
FOLKENFLIK: Right, and that takes you beyond the eulogizing of him as a husband, a father, a friend, a political leader in the MAGA right and an adviser, obviously, to the Trump world. You know, in this point, you saw people taking the microphone, essentially, to define the reality, define the legacy and set the tone of what they think should be next. I want to play a clip from you of White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller. He talked on the show about channeling the anger about Kirk's murder towards rooting out what he called a domestic terror movement on the left.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST, "THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW")
STEPHEN MILLER: With God is my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie's name.
FOLKENFLIK: Making him a kind of martyr for a kind of government-centered vengeance, if we are to take what this powerful White House official says literally. You know, journalism gives you the facts quickly, or tries to, as well as correctly, or it tries its best - can't keep up with speculation, but particularly can't keep up with the digital age, where every opinion somebody might have is rocketed into the ether for us all to absorb. And currently, every framing now from the government comes at us in a variety of ways, including through Charlie Kirk's own show.
SHAPIRO: Domenico, what message does it send when the vice president of the United States hosts the radio show and video podcast for Charlie Kirk from the White House?
MONTANARO: Yeah, I think it really speaks to the importance of Kirk in MAGA world, you know, not just as an outside operator who helped convince many young voters, young men, in particular, to become Trump voters, but also as an inside political player. Vance said he wouldn't be VP without him. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said Kirk organized his endorsement event with Trump and advocated on his behalf to be Health and Human Services secretary. Vance credited Kirk with pushing for White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles, for example, to remain as campaign manager when others were calling for her ouster.
I think it also speaks to the concern Vance and others have about where the movement goes next. He said, specifically, he's worried about the, quote-unquote, "talent" of who would be able to replace Kirk on these college campuses, for example. In other words, who is going to be that person to be able to go and be as effective as he was in this style of combative oppositional dialogue?
SHAPIRO: And briefly, David, how would you answer that from a media perspective?
FOLKENFLIK: Well, the thing that I think in terms if you think about rhetoric and what's being conveyed, anyway, is the sense that these were folks who came to power in part 'cause they said we are living in a cancel culture where broad, controversial incendiary remarks - even those of the kinds of Kirk himself - are causing people to be, you know, major lefty institutions in the media to go after them. But right now, what you're hearing is them wanting to go after those who they see as critics of Charlie Kirk and what he represented and what they want to do.
SHAPIRO: NPR's David Folkenflik and Domenico Montanaro, thank you both.
MONTANARO: You're so welcome.
FOLKENFLIK: You bet. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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