SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Now we turn to NPR senior political contributor Ron Elving. Ron, thanks so much for being with us.
RON ELVING, BYLINE: Good to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: How significant, do you believe, is this indictment?
ELVING: We're seeing the depth of resentment the president still seems to feel about the start of his first term. That was when Comey asserted the independence of the Justice Department, as Ryan Lucas was just telling us. You may recall how Trump suggested Comey could go easy on one of Trump's allies and early appointees. Comey pushed back, and the relationship soured quickly. Trump fired Comey, prompting many people to conclude that Trump did not understand that the DOJ was not his to order about like an in-house lawyer.
So in significance, this current indictment may say more about the Trump administration than it does about Comey. And while it may well be a personal and financial burden for the former FBI director, it is highly unlikely to lead to a conviction, and it may not even get to a trial. Now, we heard a chorus of the president's usual supporters in certain media coming out to call this indictment weak. Moreover, the prospect of a trial that brings out the facts about what Trump did and what Trump didn't do and what Comey did back 10 years ago is not likely to bathe the president in a flattering light.
SIMON: President Trump addressed the U.N. General Assembly earlier this week. Didn't hold back, did he?
ELVING: The president seemed genuinely annoyed by a bulky escalator that stopped just as he got on, and then by a teleprompter that malfunctioned. He also seemed upset about one of his companies losing out on a bid to renovate the U.N. building years ago. But of course, he also went well beyond the merely peevish and personal with his assault on other countries and their handling of immigration. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It's time to end the failed experiment of open borders. You have to end it now. It's - I can tell you. I'm really good at this stuff. Your countries are going to hell.
ELVING: So on one hand, Trump seems to be bearding the United Nations lion right in its own den, but his real audience there may be far outside the U.N. itself. He knows that organization and other international entities are not popular with his own voters. They delight in hearing him disrespect the U.N. They believe the United States has been taken advantage of by the United Nations and many of its members, and they are glad to hear someone say so and insist on greater respect for the U.S.
SIMON: Ron, next week, can a government shutdown be averted? And if not, what might it look like?
ELVING: It's hard to see how they can avoid it now. Both sides at least seem to have decided to have the shutdown, Trump because he thinks it will empower him to do as he wishes and strengthen his standing with voters. Democrats seem resigned to a shutdown because anything more cooperative would make them look weak or, worse yet, make them look like enablers for Trump. So they've chosen to take a stand over health care spending. Now, Democrats could have shut the government down back in March. And some say they should have, that nothing was gained by going along. And that sentiment seems to be dominating right now in the opposition party.
SIMON: Politically, what implications do you think it has for both parties? Who'll get the blame if there is a shutdown?
ELVING: It's usually easier for the president to dominate the debate about a shutdown. The White House can speak with a single, authoritative voice. Meanwhile, the opposition consists of scores of different people and coalitions, and it can be nearly impossible to get all the Democrats on the same rhetorical program at the same time. That enables the president and his party to say, look, we gave this all the votes we had, but we don't have 60. And that's the magic number to cut off debate, so we need a few of you Democrats to come over and help us keep the government open.
It's easier for politicians to mischaracterize their opposition sometimes than it is to formulate a policy of their own that actually pleases swing voters. And this is happening at a time when many other issues are in the news and pulling voters in different directions, and distracting them makes it all the harder to explain a complex budget process.
SIMON: NPR's Ron Elving. Thanks so much.
ELVING: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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