AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Well, the hours are ticking down until the government shuts down at midnight. And in Washington, both sides are digging in. Here's Senate Majority Leader John Thune speaking to reporters at the Capitol today.
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JOHN THUNE: If the government shuts down, it is on the Senate Democrats.
CHANG: Well, and the Senate's top Democrat, Chuck Schumer, who spoke in the exact same spot a few moments later, said this about Republicans.
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CHUCK SCHUMER: It's in their court to solve it. It's their shutdown.
CHANG: The Senate is expected to vote today on two different partisan options to fund the government, at least temporarily. Both are currently expected to fail. NPR congressional correspondent Barbara Sprunt has been covering all of this and joins us now from the Capitol. Hi, Barbara.
BARBARA SPRUNT, BYLINE: Hi, Ailsa.
CHANG: OK. So I know that Democrats and Republicans met at the White House yesterday, and in theory, their goal was to find a way out of a shutdown. It's been 24 hours, right? Have they made...
SPRUNT: Yeah.
CHANG: ...Any progress?
SPRUNT: No. In fact, things seem to be getting worse. You heard congressional leadership there. I wouldn't call that particularly promising. And there have been a few signs from the White House after that meeting yesterday that also don't point to progress. One, the president was antagonizing Democrats on social media last night with a racist AI-generated video of House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer - not exactly the thing you post when you're trying to broker a deal at the 11th hour. And then today, the president said this.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We can do things during the shutdown that are irreversible, that are bad for them and irreversible by them, like cutting vast numbers of people out, cutting things that they like, cutting programs that they like.
CHANG: OK. And how have Democrats responded to that?
SPRUNT: Well, Schumer addressed it directly today.
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SCHUMER: Trump admitted himself that he is using Americans as political pawns. He is admitting that he is doing the firing of people if, God forbid, it happens.
SPRUNT: And that really stood out to me, Ailsa. If a shutdown happens, which looks very likely, we are going to see a really public blame game. And, you know, it can feel like us talking about politics is just, like, palace intrigue. But for a shutdown, the messaging and the public blame actually does matter. The perception of who is to blame is going to impact how we get out of a shutdown because someone eventually has to give in in order for this to end.
CHANG: Exactly. And we see this movie over and over again. OK. So...
SPRUNT: Exactly.
CHANG: ...Republicans need at least seven Democrats to vote with them on what's called a continuing resolution. This would fund the government temporarily and avoid a shutdown. What are they asking for in exchange for their support?
SPRUNT: Well, Senate Democrats want to repeal cuts to health care programs that were enacted by the GOP's major tax and spending bill that they passed earlier this summer. And they also want to extend Affordable Care Act subsidies that are set to expire at the end of the year.
CHANG: And Senate Majority Leader John Thune has signaled some openness to negotiating on this front, right?
SPRUNT: Yeah, that's right. But not when a shutdown is still on the table, he says. And also, it's not as simple, I think, as will they make these subsidies permanent or not in any sort of future negotiation. This is a COVID-era policy that boosted up these tax credits. It would be very costly to extend them, certainly very costly to make them permanent, as some Democrats want, so much so that it will be a nonstarter for some House Republicans. And other Republicans may be open to extending them but with significant changes. Leader Thune has already talked about wanting to address what he calls waste, fraud and abuse within that system.
CHANG: OK. Well, assuming there is a shutdown, is there any sense of how long it would last?
SPRUNT: I - you know, this feels like it could be a long one. It's just hard to see how either party makes the first move to negotiate here. They're so dug in, and the messaging around this has already started.
CHANG: That is NPR's Barbara Sprunt. Thank you so much, Barbara.
SPRUNT: Thank you, Ailsa. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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