AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
A federal judge in Illinois issued a temporary restraining order on Thursday prohibiting federal agents from using certain types of crowd control methods against journalists, protesters and members of the clergy. They've been demonstrating against the government's immigration enforcement policies outside an ICE facility in Broadview, Illinois, in recent weeks. And according to court documents, ICE agents have lobbed pepper balls and sprayed tear gas at protesters, including clergy members. Presbyterian minister Reverend Quincy Worthington has been at some of these protests. Welcome to the program.
QUINCY WORTHINGTON: Thank you, and thank you for having me.
RASCOE: So first, I guess I want to start with, why do you go to these protests? And are you going as a reverend? Are you going in your personal capacity?
WORTHINGTON: You know, I view myself, and I think the protesters are viewing me, essentially as a chaplain there. When I first started going, it was to liaison between police and protesters to make sure that everybody was safe, that there were open lines of communication between law enforcement and the protesters so everybody could exercise their First Amendment rights peacefully. What I've experienced is that some people feel like God has abandoned Broadview, and they're looking for signs of hope. Having a member of clergy there standing with them is a reminder that God stands with them as well.
RASCOE: And have you experienced any violence, I guess, from anyone on either side of this?
WORTHINGTON: So I started going maybe about a month ago. And what I've seen every time I've gone is that ICE's response to the protest has continually escalated. At first, they would come out of the gates, shove people to the ground, push people out of the way in order to make room for vehicles to enter and exit the facility. Then it started turning into, they would shoot pepper balls at us, and then tear gas started coming out, and then flashbangs and rubber bullets. I have not seen anything that I thought would provoke this response.
RASCOE: This administration talks about religion a lot, talks about Christianity and faith a lot. Even the Department of Homeland Security has used Bible verses to promote their immigration actions. On one Instagram post, it quotes Psalm 28:7. The Lord is my strength and my shield. My heart trusts in him, and he helps me. How does that make you feel?
WORTHINGTON: I find it highly offensive and extremely troubling. The overall message of the gospel is one of grace and one of love and one of compassion. To use scripture in order to promote domination and dehumanization, I find, is probably one of the most egregious and abhorrent uses of scripture that one can do.
From seeing what ICE is doing to protesters outside in the broad daylight in front of cameras, it terrifies me for what must be going on inside that facility and the reports we have from people who have been arrested and brought into that facility of what those conditions are. Not even just from a Christian standpoint, but from a human standpoint, it's a humanitarian crisis. And to deny people basic human rights and then back that up with scripture - I just don't know how you defend that.
RASCOE: What do you feel like spirituality and faith have to do with a political issue like immigration policy?
WORTHINGTON: For me, what faith is is transforming us in order to see people in the world that God sees people in the world. And I think if we shift into seeing people as God sees them - that they're our precious children, that they are beloved by God, that they're created in God's image - that when we see unnecessary human suffering inflicted on our siblings, we can't help but respond to it, and I think that's a faithful response to what's going on.
RASCOE: In this moment, with so many kind of versions of Christianity on display, do you worry that people will lose any sort of confidence or belief in what Christianity is?
WORTHINGTON: I can't control how other people perceive Christianity as a whole. Lord knows, whatever you look for, you're going to find when it comes to Christianity sometimes.
RASCOE: (Laughter) Yes. Yeah, yeah.
WORTHINGTON: But all I know is that at the end of the day when my head hits the pillow, the question I have to answer is, did I live up to my faith and my beliefs? And then what people do with that, how they interpret that - I mean, I have people in my own congregation who disagree with what I'm doing, and that's entirely within the right. And we can have faithful, heartfelt, sincere discussions with each other, which is something that we're losing the ability to do in this country, and it's so critically important.
RASCOE: That's Reverend Quincy Worthington. Thank you so much for being with us.
WORTHINGTON: Thank you so much for having me.
RASCOE: We did reach out to the Department of Homeland Security for their view of the protest in Broadview and didn't hear back by showtime today. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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