AILSA CHANG, HOST:
President Trump created tariff whiplash earlier this year, first imposing tariffs on almost every country, then dialing them back. Since then, Trump has struck what his administration has said are trade deals with some countries. But despite these deals, it doesn't mean there's any certainty regarding what taxes businesses will end up paying on imports. To explain, we're joined now by NPR White House correspondent Danielle Kurtzleben. Hi, Danielle.
DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN, BYLINE: Hey there.
CHANG: Hey. OK. So President Trump has been coming out with these new trade announcements pretty often. Like, at the end of last week, he announced deals with four Latin American countries. What do we know about those agreements?
KURTZLEBEN: Well, the terminology is important here. The administration called them deals. They're technically called frameworks for agreements. Last week's say that actual finalized trade deals with those countries are still coming. So these frameworks are generally not legally binding, and that creates uncertainty. To talk about that, here's Jake Colvin. He's the president of the National Foreign Trade Council, which is a business association that advocates on trade policy.
JAKE COLVIN: If you're looking at these series of bilateral trade agreements that the administration has announced with partners in Latin America and Southeast Asia over the past couple of weeks, there's a real concern about their durability. You know, without approval by Congress, these are really political agreements, rather than legal ones.
CHANG: Wait. But Trump did more than that last week, right? Like, didn't he remove tariffs on grocery items like coffee and produce from some countries? Like, does that create more stability?
KURTZLEBEN: To some degree, yes. And Colvin also told me that businesses are happy the administration did that, but he said that plenty of uncertainty remains. Again, Trump has proven willing to change tariffs at the drop of a hat. But there's something interesting about that order that reduced those food tariffs. It contained not only a list of products to be exempted, but also a long list of products, like aircraft parts, pharmaceuticals, that might someday be exempt. So if you're a company who needs to buy those goods, you may be happy those things are on that list but you still don't know if or when you're going to get tariff relief. And I...
CHANG: Right.
KURTZLEBEN: ...Should add, by the way, that I did reach out to the White House to ask for comment on all this uncertainty that remains around these agreements. I did not get a response from them.
CHANG: OK. Well, we've been talking about these country-by-country agreements, but Trump has also imposed tariffs on different goods - right? - like auto parts, steel, aluminum.
KURTZLEBEN: Right.
CHANG: Is there uncertainty with those tariffs as well?
KURTZLEBEN: Yes. And steel and aluminum is a great example. The rates on those tariffs has changed this year, but even beyond that, the steel and aluminum products that that tariff covers also have changed. For example, in August, the administration added more than 400 categories to the list of what is affected by those steel and aluminum tariffs, everything from kitchen knives to fire extinguishers. And the administration argued that that was meant to stop firms from circumventing the tariffs. But even if that's true, that example still shows that even when a tariff rate is set, the tariff itself can still drastically change.
CHANG: Yeah. And then there's also the question of how the Supreme Court will rule on some of Trump's tariffs, right? Like, how much more uncertainty does that create?
KURTZLEBEN: A lot. But it's not just about whether those country-by-country tariffs will be found to be unlawful. The uncertainty is also around what the impact is on those country-by-country agreements, since those were created under the threat of tariffs. Here's Scott Lincicome - he's a trade expert at the libertarian Cato Institute - on how countries will react.
SCOTT LINCICOME: I wouldn't be surprised if a few governments that have agreed to these deals do back out or at least suspend them and call for a renegotiation. Because, again, one of the most fundamental terms of the deal no longer exists.
KURTZLEBEN: So we're really in uncharted waters. There's just an array of different agreements, which means there's no one way this will play out.
CHANG: That is NPR's Danielle Kurtzleben. Thank you so much, Danielle.
KURTZLEBEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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