DON GONYEA, HOST:
Funding for the Department of Homeland Security is still up in the air following the collapse of a Senate deal that would have funded the department - except for ICE and Customs and Border Patrol - through the end of September. It's unclear when the DHS shutdown will finally end, but President Trump, citing long lines at airports and the nation's security, has signed an emergency order directing DHS to pay TSA agents. For reaction to this and to get a sense of what it's been like for those agents, we're joined by Johnny Jones of Fort Worth, Texas. He is secretary-treasurer of the American Federation of Government Employees TSA Council 100. That's the union representing TSA workers. Johnny Jones, thank you for joining us.
JOHNNY JONES: Oh, you're welcome. I do apologize for the long title.
GONYEA: (Laughter) It's all right. First, has your union gotten any clarity over when TSA agents might actually get paid?
JONES: According to my sources, it looks like Tuesday. And the union's response is, we want to thank President Trump, but unfortunately, the officers, even though they're going to get paid, this is not going to make them whole because many of my colleagues are deep in the hole. And so we're advocating for a $10,000 bonus for all TSA officers across the country.
GONYEA: And when you say an extra $10,000 bonus to cover them being deep in the hole, what are you talking about there?
JONES: Well, a lot of people had to take loans out, which cost money. Everybody had an apartment complex. Their apartment agreed not to evict them, but they still had to pay the 35 to $75 per day late fee. This isn't just this one. This has happened twice in the last five months. So when you calculate all that stuff, the average has got to be around $10,000 'cause I've lost personally thousands and thousands of dollars. And I'm in one of the better positions of all the officers.
GONYEA: And do you think this action from the president will quickly improve staffing at airports and reduce those long lines we've been seeing?
JONES: It may or may not. It - look, if you didn't have gas Tuesday, you still don't have gas today, and you won't have gas until your money hits your bank account, right? There's still going to be some lagging effect.
GONYEA: I think it's worth getting some background here. I mean, let's go to the very beginning. How long does it take to train a TSA agent?
JONES: It takes about four to six months...
GONYEA: OK.
JONES: ...On average.
GONYEA: And what's that training like?
JONES: It's not as physical as it is mental, and you have to have extreme mental dexterity. It reminds me of working in a circus. Every passenger is your next act. You don't know if they're in a bad mood, a good mood, or if they're in a rush or what's going on. So you have to be able to keep that switch from reacting back to people.
GONYEA: And on top of all that, the stakes are so high, right? I mean, I don't think we need to remind people that the TSA was created in the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks.
JONES: That is correct. So there's so many facets, and we're not really paid that well. We're paid decent. But in today's society, where everything is so expensive - and we have many TSA officers that work two jobs already. They all pretty much live paycheck to paycheck. So...
GONYEA: And what's the typical starting salary for a new TSA agent?
JONES: In the low $40,000 range.
GONYEA: Looking at the current situation, TSA workers are still required to show up for work, even in times when they aren't being paid. When agents do call in and say they won't be into work, how much of a burden does that put on those who do show up?
JONES: All right. So whenever you see a statistic that says 40% of the TSA officers called out, well, that means 60% of the people came into work. So that means those 60% of the people are now doing 100% of the work. And that's the reason why you'll see the lines back up outside of the building because the fact is, is that you still have to maintain security stature, regardless of how many people don't come into work.
GONYEA: ICE agents were sent to more than a dozen airports across the U.S. last week to support TSA. And we hear the ICE agents have been more guarding entryways to the airport, guarding exit points. Have you been comfortable with the division of labor that has been worked out in the places where ICE has been present?
JONES: I just know that the officers have reached out to me and said it's a total distraction to their ability to do their jobs because unfortunately, all the passengers are looking for ICE, not even the TSA officer. And then there's the other complex of people that are actually afraid of going to the airport because of ICE. I believe ICE are great people, OK? There's always some bad actors, OK? Whatever has happened in the media has caused the majority of the population to be afraid of interacting with an ICE agent. So it does cause a distraction.
GONYEA: And the ICE agents have not been screening passengers and working at the machines screening luggage, right?
JONES: No. No, absolutely not.
GONYEA: OK. So DHS says several hundred TSA agents have quit during this budget battle. How much of a problem is that for the agency in the long term?
JONES: If I was the agency and this happened, I would be calling those employees back after the funding lapse and say, hey, look, we're going to offer your job back, we understand why you left. Otherwise, you're going to have to pay somebody six months to retrain them. Now, maybe they won't come back. But at any rate, this is going to cost the agency millions and millions of dollars in retraining new officers.
GONYEA: This is a big-picture question, but given the stalemate over DHS funding, what do you think would be a better solution for this workforce? I mean, some people suggest, hey, privatization is the answer. What are your thoughts?
JONES: My answer is, first of all, if we just had Congress that could do their job, then TSA officers wouldn't be in the front line of the newspapers every single day, right? I want to make it clear to the listeners that privatization will not save you, the traveling public, one nickel. When you get a private contractor involved, it costs twice as much to do the business of what the federal government can do. And also, P is for profit, not for the passenger. So if you have a private screening workforce, they're there to make a profit, not to worry about the security of the passengers. Who was doing the screening before 9/11? - private companies. So let's just remember how we got to the TSA in the first place.
GONYEA: We've been talking to Johnny Jones of the AFGE TSA Council 100. Thank you so much for talking about all of this.
JONES: You're welcome. Thanks for having me.
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