AILSA CHANG, HOST:
OK. Let's stay with the war because this week, President Trump drastically intensified his rhetoric towards Iran. He threatened to annihilate the entire country if Iranian leaders did not reopen the Strait of Hormuz by Tuesday evening. He then changed course and announced a two-week ceasefire, but his threats sparked fierce backlash from prominent voices inside the conservative movement, raising questions about deeper divides within Trump's base. NPR political reporter Elena Moore is following this and joins us now. Hi, Elena.
ELENA MOORE, BYLINE: Hey, Ailsa.
CHANG: Hey. So what sort of pushback have you been hearing from conservatives about this war?
MOORE: Well, it seems like Trump's comments this week have taken some of the criticism to a new level, and that's been especially clear when listening to people like Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly. Now, these guys disagreeing on the war isn't new, but what is striking is the extent that they're breaking with Trump on this. They've gone from actively supporting him - literally campaigning with him in 2024 - to taking public stands against the conflict, to now this rare step of actively and directly criticizing Trump. And in recent days, before Trump declared a two-week ceasefire, both podcast hosts spent considerable time on their shows voicing frustration with Trump and his threats. Here's Kelly on her show yesterday.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST, "THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW")
MEGYN KELLY: This is completely irresponsible and disgusting. I wish he would stop doing this. Like, he can't negotiate without doing this. What does that say about him?
MOORE: And a day earlier, Carlson called Trump's threat about bombing bridges and power plants if there's no deal, quote, "vile on every level."
And it's not just them, Ailsa. We heard similar statements from folks like Candace Owens and Marjorie Taylor Greene. They each took to social media and called for Congress to remove Trump from office by invoking the 25th Amendment.
CHANG: OK. This is strong pushback...
MOORE: Right.
CHANG: ...Elena, but this is still just a handful of people, right? And we know that Trump's base still overwhelmingly supports him. So why do these statements matter, do you think?
MOORE: Well, bottom line, these people have massive audiences. Take Carlson and Kelly again. They may not be on primetime TV anymore, but they now host some of the most popular podcasts in the country, each with an average weekly reach of more than 1.6 million, according to Edison Podcast Metrics. And that puts them in the top 20. Plus, the vast majority of their audience is Republicans over 45, and that's Trump's base.
CHANG: Indeed. Well, it is a midterm election year. So what are the political ramifications as you see them?
MOORE: Well, I put that question to some Republican strategists. Ryan Williams was a longtime spokesman for Mitt Romney, who also worked for the George W. Bush White House, and he argues that any criticism of Trump from supporters doesn't change the command he has over the party.
RYAN WILLIAMS: He's been in tune with his base in a way that no other Republican president in my lifetime has been in tune with the base. I mean, he starts with a stronger hand to weather these storms when the criticism occurs.
CHANG: OK. But of course, Trump is not on the ballot this November. So even if MAGA infighting does not hurt him, could it still hurt others in the party?
MOORE: Well, Williams says it's too early to know how much the war could really affect the midterms. He acknowledges it could but says criticism from MAGA media personalities won't be the thing that drives that, you know, reminding that typically domestic issues, like the economy, are what turn out voters.
CHANG: Right.
MOORE: But at the same time, we do know that key to an election - especially an off-year election - is enthusiasm. So I'll be watching to see if this kind of high-profile criticism continues and whether, frankly, Republicans have to worry about the strength of their coalition.
CHANG: That is NPR political reporter Elena Moore. Thank you, Elena.
MOORE: Thanks.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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