SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
This month will mark two years since the beginning of the end of a presidency, when the calls for then-President Joe Biden to end his campaign for a second term reached a fever pitch.
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JOE BIDEN: Dealing with everything we have to do with - look, if we finally beat Medicare...
DETROW: This month also marks the first time we are hearing about that period from the person closest to the former president, his wife, Jill Biden. She sat down with me to discuss her new memoir, "View From The East Wing."
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DETROW: You are walking offstage with President Biden after that debate.
JILL BIDEN: Yes. Yeah.
DETROW: And he turns to you and he says, I really f'd up, didn't I? And you said, yes, you did.
JILL BIDEN: Yes, you did. Yeah.
DETROW: At the time, the former first lady didn't think it was the beginning of the end. Jill Biden told me she never questioned her husband's fitness for office before or after that debate performance. But as the weeks went on that summer, it became clear to the Bidens that most Democrats disagreed. Biden dropped out of the race and quickly endorsed his vice president, Kamala Harris.
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DETROW: When he did make that announcement, you write in a lot of detail about that day, and you write about the phone call that he had with Vice President Harris that morning. And you say that when she was talking to him about when and how you would endorse her, you had to leave the room.
JILL BIDEN: I was overwhelmed. I mean, it was, you know, just all of it, the swirl of it all. You know, how was he going to do it? When was he going to do it? What were the steps? What was the process? It was overwhelming. And, Scott, you have to remember, you know, he's my husband.
DETROW: Yeah.
JILL BIDEN: I love him. And to watch what he was going through and to think - I mean, he's been in public service - we've both been in public service for 50 years. That's a long time. And at one point, it just got too much.
DETROW: So it wasn't necessarily that you thought she was doing anything wrong. It was just the moment of...
JILL BIDEN: No, it was just I was overcome.
DETROW: Yeah. Yeah. You know, Vice President Harris wrote in her book that she felt like she could have had a better chance if she had had more time to run, and I'm wondering what your response is to that thinking of should President Biden have made that decision earlier if he was going to make that decision? Could he have helped his vice president?
JILL BIDEN: You know, I'm not a political pundit. I'm not - I don't know.
DETROW: Yeah.
JILL BIDEN: I don't know. And that's my answer.
DETROW: When I covered the campaign, when I covered the White House, I was one of...
JILL BIDEN: Oh, may I say, though, I did think she was going to win.
DETROW: You did? So you were surprised?
JILL BIDEN: Absolutely.
DETROW: Yeah.
JILL BIDEN: I mean, I campaigned all over the country for her.
DETROW: Yeah.
JILL BIDEN: And I saw the enthusiasm. I saw the excitement. And I went to bed that night - election night - thinking she was going to win. I was shocked when I got up in the morning and somebody called me and said, have you seen the news? So I truly believed she was going to win.
DETROW: I know you say you're not a political figure, but you know a lot about politics. You know a lot more about politics...
JILL BIDEN: I lived it.
DETROW: Yeah.
JILL BIDEN: I've lived it. Yeah.
DETROW: But given that, have you thought - do you have a sense of why you think America wanted to put President Trump back in the White House in that moment? Do you have a...
JILL BIDEN: I have no idea.
DETROW: Yeah. Knowing how it all played out, if you could tell yourself anything during that 2023, 2024 period, is there anything you'd tell yourself?
JILL BIDEN: You know, Scott, after what we went through, it was really hurtful. I think it was a dark period in our lives that people we considered to be friends or supporters said such hurtful things. And so to look back - it wasn't just me and Joe.
DETROW: Yeah.
JILL BIDEN: Look at our grandkids. You know, seeing them go through that and how hurt they were - no, I'd never want to go through that again.
DETROW: There's a chapter in this book about a really intense week of your life, the week where you were shuttling back and forth...
JILL BIDEN: Yeah.
DETROW: ...Between official duties...
JILL BIDEN: Yeah.
DETROW: ...As first lady in France and Hunter's trial. Why was it so important to you to be in both places that week, to do this - I remember seeing the schedule and thinking, how can she do this? You're in France. You're back in Delaware.
JILL BIDEN: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DETROW: You're in France. You're in Delaware.
JILL BIDEN: Yep.
DETROW: Why did you feel like you had to be both places?
JILL BIDEN: Well, first and foremost, I'm Hunter's mother.
DETROW: Yeah.
JILL BIDEN: And of course I was going to be there for him. But I also knew I was first lady, and I was expected to carry out my duties as first lady. And I did.
DETROW: You wrote at the end of that chapter, in the end, working so hard to be impartial, we guaranteed that Hunter would meet the worst possible fate. Can you tell me more about how you thought about all of that?
JILL BIDEN: Well, I think, you know, the process was just so unfair to Hunter. And in trying to be so impartial, Joe, you know, not interfering with the Justice Department. But then Trump got elected. He said there was going to be retribution. He said he wanted Hunter Biden in jail, and there just was no way.
DETROW: He would have been sentenced before Trump came back into office. So can you tell me more about what specifically you were worried about about what Hunter's fate could look like with a President Trump compared to a President Harris?
JILL BIDEN: Oh, my gosh. Well, I don't really know, but I certainly don't think it would have been fair under Trump. And then when he heard Trump on the TV, over and over and over, saying, you know, Hunter Biden should be in jail. Hunter Biden - you know, that he was going to make sure that our son went to jail. It just was not fair. And we knew what was going to happen. So that is why Joe changed his mind.
DETROW: He truly changed his mind?
JILL BIDEN: He truly changed his mind.
DETROW: You had about a close of a view of the role of first lady as you could get, I think, before you got it. You were second lady for eight years.
JILL BIDEN: Yes. Yeah.
DETROW: You were a Senate spouse for a long period of time. What - it's been...
JILL BIDEN: (Laughter) Yeah, it's a long time.
DETROW: (Laughter) But...
JILL BIDEN: We're not going to go into ages here (laughter).
DETROW: But I guess what about that role was different than you thought it would be?
JILL BIDEN: Oh, my God, it was so much different 'cause...
DETROW: Yeah.
JILL BIDEN: ...I thought, oh, second lady is going to be just like first lady, you know?
DETROW: Yeah.
JILL BIDEN: Maybe a little bit harder. But it is completely different. Your responsibilities are completely different. The expectations, the security, it was at a much higher level. I saw Michelle go through it and did such a beautiful job with such grace and poise, and to see her thrown into it and how beautifully she did, I mean, it was amazing.
DETROW: What's your advice to - President Trump is term limited. Either way, there's going to be a new person coming into that job in a couple years. What's your advice - Democrat or Republican, man or woman - what's your advice to that next first lady or first gentleman about what to expect?
JILL BIDEN: Do it your own way. I mean, be authentic to yourself. I think every first lady comes into office and has whatever she has determined she's wanted to work on. I had what I wanted to work on. Everyone does it differently. Barbara Bush did it differently than Laura Bush. Hillary Clinton did it differently than Michelle. I mean, Melania is doing it differently. It's her way. So each woman - so far - spouses have chosen their own path.
DETROW: Former first lady Jill Biden. Her new book is the "The View From The East Wing" (ph). Thank you so much for talking to us.
JILL BIDEN: Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for having me on.
DETROW: You can also watch our entire conversation on NPR's Newsmakers video podcast. Follow or subscribe on Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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