ADRIAN FLORIDO, HOST:
It's been almost a week since President Trump took to Truth Social to exclaim - with capital letters and an exclamation point - that Canada and the U.S. had reached a trade deal. That deal was not final, though. Three days later, Canada walked away from the negotiating table. That led Trump to introduce new 50% tariffs on a broad range of Canadian imports over the weekend, and today he threatened Canadian autos with new tariffs. For his part, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney has said Canada will not back down and promised to match U.S. tariffs, quote, "dollar for dollar."
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PRIME MINISTER MARK CARNEY: Last spring, I warned that America is trying to break us so they can own us. And I promised that that will never, ever happen. We are keeping that promise.
FLORIDO: By rejecting what he called a bad deal, Carney accepted that Canada now faces a trade war. Joining us to discuss this is Andrew Coyne. He's a columnist for The Globe and Mail in Canada. Mr. Coyne, thanks for joining us.
ANDREW COYNE: Good to be with you.
FLORIDO: Let's start with the Canadian government's decision to reject this deal. Did it surprise you?
COYNE: Not hugely. You always know with these kinds of negotiations that it's never final till it's final, and so it wasn't entirely surprising. I think people were perhaps more bewildered by why they had gotten so close to a deal given the terms that had emerged. It sure sounded like we'd given up a lot and not gotten a lot in return. So I think he would have been facing some trouble if they had closed the deal.
FLORIDO: Why did Canada end up walking away?
COYNE: It was touching on issues that went way beyond mere tariffs. I mean, the tariff part was problematic enough. And then on top of that - and I don't have the chapter and verse on this but according to the prime minister, there were demands made that would limit our ability to sign trade treaties with other countries and to trade freely with other countries. And that really touches so closely on sovereignty and, particularly, it's our strategy in dealing with this president who was trying to weaponize our dependence on U.S. trade against us. Our strategy is to try to trade more with other countries. So to be told we couldn't do that was just clearly not going to be accepted.
FLORIDO: What has been the reaction in Canada to Prime Minister Carney's decision to reject a deal with the U.S.?
COYNE: Pretty universally supportive. Trade negotiations are always - can be hardball. People understand that. People understand, also, that trade negotiations are usually about trade. They're usually about countries that would like to trade more closely with each other but they have some sensitive sectors that they want to protect.
In this case, I think the perception and the reality in Canada is that the president wants to dominate us, wants to use trade as a weapon to coral us and to make us into something of a vassal state. And that belief is very firmly held across all parties in this country, for the most part, and all regions of the country.
FLORIDO: Even so, you know, Canadian businesses are going to be hurt by this trade war, by retaliatory tariffs on U.S. goods. How are industries feeling about being sucked into a trade war?
COYNE: Very apprehensive, and rightly so. The auto industry in this country, which is a huge industry in the large province of Ontario, is looking at a very bleak future with or without this deal. But I think even industry was reacting to the particular terms of this deal saying we can't possibly accept that.
FLORIDO: Carney gave a well-received speech at the World Economic Forum in Davos this year, and he talked about a rupture in the world order without mentioning the U.S. directly. Now he is saying, in his words, America has changed. Is his willingness to stand up to Trump defining Carney as a politician, you think?
COYNE: Yes, very much so. And this is a guy, you know, who worked at Goldman Sachs, you know, studied at Harvard, he's part of the business community. He's not your typical, you know, lefty anti-America, if anybody's trying to portray him that way. This is a guy who would like to get deals done. He's been a dealmaker of one kind or another all his life. But I think he also understands the stakes for the country. And I think he understands that this is a moment when he has to lead and has to, you know, summon the will of the country to deal with this existential threat. I think a lot of Canadians would say, at this point, they think he's rising to the challenge.
FLORIDO: He's also alluded to Canada's recent efforts to untangle its economy from the U.S.'s, saying that Canada is stronger now than when the United States started this trade war. Is that true? Where does he see this going? And how does he get Canada to where he wants Canada to be?
COYNE: Yeah. This is forcing us to confront an issue that's always been sort of somewhere in Canadian psyche is how much dependence on the United States, how much exposure to the United States is too much? And I think for most of our history, people would say, look, there's a stable Democratic republic to our south. Sometimes they don't pay enough attention to us, or sometimes they can be a little overbearing but, basically, we can deal with them. But there is a real determination now to say, we cannot be this exposed ever again.
FLORIDO: Well, I've been speaking with Andrew Coyne, columnist with The Globe and Mail in Canada. Thanks for joining us.
COYNE: My pleasure. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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