SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
The man who upended British politics in 2016 may be doing it again. Nigel Farage led the Brexit campaign that resulted in the U.K. leaving the European Union. He is now leader of the right-wing populist party, Reform U.K., that has recently won a series of local elections and is surging in national polls. George Eaton is a senior editor of politics at New Statesman magazine and joins us from London. Mr. Eaton, thanks for being with us.
GEORGE EATON: Thank you for having me.
SIMON: How would you describe this moment in British politics for Americans?
EATON: It's very volatile. You are seeing the traditional laws of British politics upended. For over a century, obviously, the system has been defined by the two main parties - Labour and the Conservatives. But, you know, what we have at the moment with Nigel Farage's party now leading in the opinion polls - they won the local elections, the recent local elections - people are starting to ask whether you could see Reform win a general election. People are genuinely talking about Nigel Farage as a potential prime minister now but certainly replaced the Conservatives as the main opposition to the Labour government, which would be, you know, a historic moment. This is - the Conservatives often are described as the most successful party in the democratic world - the party of Margaret Thatcher, the party of Winston Churchill - and they have never looked closer to extinction than they do at the moment.
SIMON: Well, what's been the appeal of Reform U.K. and Nigel Farage?
EATON: So I think they've always had an appeal on the right. They're one of the reasons the Conservatives had their worst result at the last general election. Obviously, Farage carries huge political weight as the man who can claim more responsibility for Brexit than anyone else, strong campaigner against immigration. But he's also now eating into Labour's vote share, and he has pivoted. You know, historically, he was known as very much a free marketeer, but he's now embracing more leftist economics. You know, he's saying that he thinks some industries should be publicly owned. He's making more favorable comments about trade unions. And that's really a pitch for Labour's traditional votes in industrial areas.
SIMON: At the same time, I must note - is the Labour Party, under Prime Minister Starmer, sounding a more conservative note, particularly on an issue like immigration?
EATON: I think that you certainly could say they are more small-C Conservative, and that's something we have seen under previous Labour governments on immigration. But that's undoubtedly also about the threat from Reform. And they recognize that many British voters do think immigration's too high. They wanted less spent on foreign aid, and the government's made the decision to cut the foreign aid budget and spend more on defense. They think too much is spent on benefits, particularly health and disability benefits. So it is partly voter-driven, but it's also about the government operating in a very tough economic climate.
SIMON: Does this have anything to do with what we see in the United States?
EATON: Well, I think it certainly does. I think really, British politics and U.S. politics have always been intertwined. You know, New Labour learned a lot from the Clinton Democrats. Obviously, Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were great allies. And Brexit and Trump, although they had different causes, in 2016 really did feel like twin phenomena. And I think the U.S. right and the U.K. right are obviously swapping notes and sharing intelligence strategies. And you've seen - just as the Republicans have moved away from their traditional free-trade, Reaganite positions, so you're seeing Nigel Farage's Reform, you know, move away from pure Thatcherism into a more statist, interventionist space.
And, you know, what's the big picture? And, I mean, not just in the U.S. and the U.K., but around the world, you know, the populist right has generally been on the rise, although it's interesting that Trump's election has stalled that in Canada and Australia, among others. But it's been on the rise because voters have been discontent really ever since the financial crises, when, in some ways, the old laws of politics around old assumptions about the center ground were suspended. And ever since, you have seen these insurgent politicians come forward.
SIMON: George Eaton from New Statesman in London. Thanks so much for being with us.
EATON: Thank you very much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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