SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
The Supreme Court opened a new term today with arguments in a blockbuster case about climate change. Boulder, Colorado, is suing two energy giants to try to recover the costs of responding to disasters that the city attributes to global warming. At a rally outside the court, protesters made the case that Big Oil companies were aware of the harms of fossil fuels and deceived the public.
(SOUNDBITE OF PROTEST)
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: (Chanting) They knew.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: (Chanting) They lied.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: (Chanting) They knew.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: (Chanting) They lied.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: (Chanting) They knew.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: (Chanting) They lied.
PFEIFFER: The energy companies argue this is too big an issue for state juries to decide. NPR's Carrie Johnson watched those arguments, and she's with me now in the studio. Hi, Carrie.
CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: Hi, Sacha.
PFEIFFER: So what is at the heart of the city of Boulder's argument here?
JOHNSON: Boulder argues Suncor and ExxonMobil deceived people for years about the harms of fossil fuels and that the companies should pay their fair share for the cost of responding to extreme weather events like wildfires, floods, heat emergencies. They filed this case back in 2018. It still has not gone to trial. They say they just want their day in court.
PFEIFFER: And the energy companies, what's their counterargument?
JOHNSON: The companies say this issue is simply too big to let every state government weigh in with a lawsuit. They say climate change is global, and it's so important that the federal government needs to be in charge here. Suncor and Exxon say the Supreme Court should preclude or block these cases. Justice Brett Kavanaugh seemed pretty clearly to buy this argument. Here is Kavanaugh talking about the consequences of letting this Boulder case proceed.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
BRETT KAVANAUGH: It's going to bankrupt - you know, if there are enough of these - bankrupt these various defendants and certainly other defendants out there.
PFEIFFER: So maybe a sense of which way he's leaning - what else can you tell us about the arguments and other justices and their leanings?
JOHNSON: There were some tough questions all around for both sides here. Justice Elena Kagan likened this Boulder lawsuit to cases against Big Tobacco companies decades ago that the courts did allow to proceed.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
ELENA KAGAN: But this is the same kind of lawsuit against the same kind of actors for the same kind of harm. And I guess I'm not understanding how it is that the one would be preempted and the other is not.
JOHNSON: Other justices ask whether they should even breach the substance of this case now because it's still at an early stage in Colorado's state court, and the high court may not yet have jurisdiction. And only eight justices were on the bench today because Justice Sam Alito recused himself last week. So if this court deadlocks four to four, Boulder could move forward with the case.
PFEIFFER: The Supreme Court often weighs in on the side of business interests. Does that appear likely in this case?
JOHNSON: I talked with Jonathan Adler, a law professor at William & Mary. Adler heard the conservative justices really grappling with that today.
JONATHAN ADLER: Whatever their sympathies are for some of the concerns about state courts driving federal climate change policy, the ask of the fossil fuel companies here to wholly preclude any and all litigation in this space is a very aggressive posture and would be - and it would be quite a sweeping decision to go that far.
JOHNSON: A decision is expected in this case by the end of a term next summer.
PFEIFFER: And, Carrie, you have reported that the ruling in this case could have implications beyond global warming. How could it do that?
JOHNSON: Absolutely. This case is already big because it could involve billions of dollars, energy companies on the hook for that much money. But it also could touch many other areas where states get harmed by conduct in and outside their borders. That includes things like AI and data centers, among other controversial issues.
PFEIFFER: Interesting. That is NPR's Carrie Johnson talking about the new Supreme Court term. Carrie, thank you.
JOHNSON: Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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